When developing the idea of Hang Up, I ran into a problem. If a Caller wasn't interested in the Star, why would they continue dating them? Would they maybe even want to drop out and leave the show?

So we needed a prize besides just ending up with the Star. And that's how the twist came to be– the winning Caller would be able to choose an all-expenses-paid vacation with the Star or a cash prize instead. 🤑

And then something surprised me. When explaining the show premise and the cash v. vacay choice, every single person was adamant about what would be the obvious choice. But they were split. Half were sure anyone in that position would take the vacation; and the other half were sure that anyone would take the cash!

It's a choice that simmers in the background for most of the season, but in this episode, it comes to the forefront. The power dynamics begin to shift, as the Star begins to think about if they will be chosen in return.

So this is when we get down to business and ask the tough questions– and bring Zakiya in to help.


Previously on Hang Up…

Cedar: I love you. Wait, oh my god no did I really say that?

Timo and their Callers got intimate.

Timo: I wanna go on a hike with someone that I get to fuck when I get to the top.

And in the end, Timo hung up on Cedar, who then revealed her true identity.

Cedar: So I am known in my drag persona as Lady Shug, I’ve performed all over the US

Timo: Stop it!

Billy and Salix: Oh my god.

Leaving just two Callers remaining.

Timo: Salix you’re fucking adorable

Timo: Oh, Billy

Welcome to Hang Up, a reality dating show with no rings attached. I’m your host, Zakiya Gibbons. Here’s how the show works.

Every week, our Star goes on a themed date with each of their Callers. All of these dates happen exclusively over the phone. The Star and their Callers all change their names so they can’t find each other outside of the show.

The Callers only have one date per week to stand out from the crowd. But if they can’t establish a clear connection, they risk getting the hang up, eliminating them from the show.

The Star hangs up on one Caller each week. To stay on the line, they must win over Timo. And in the end, the winning caller has a choice to make: an all expenses paid vacation with Timo sponsored by Both& Apparel, or hang up on them, and take a cash prize of one thousand dollars.

This week, we’re down to our final two callers— Salix and Billy. In this episode, the Three-Way Date. It’s the very last chance for Timo, Salix, and Billy to ask their final, burning questions and get the answers they need to make their big decisions.

So for the very *first* time, I’ll be joining Timo on their date to ask some tough questions and to make sure they get answered.

Whose call will ring through? And whose call will be ignored?

Billy: I’ve been searching for you all my life.

Salix: This has to be a monogamous relationship that is like the one ring to rule them all.

Timo: It’s getting really real.

Find out this week on Hang Up.

Zakiya Hey, Timo. 

Timo Hi, Zakiya. I'm so bewildered by the turn of events. This is drama. At this point, this is drama. 

Zakiya We need to talk about that last hang up. 

Timo I am beside myself. I'm reeling. 

Cedar: It's your loss honey. Everybody else take the money. And Cedar's out. 

Zakiya I’m still shook.

Timo Shook F, like what is even happening? I almost feel silly like I should have known or I kinda had a hunch but I… yeah.

Zakiya Okay, so just to recap, you hung up on Cedar, and then she revealed her true identity as Lady Shug, a famous New Mexican drag queen who starred in HBO's We're Here and is apparently also your make out partner. What? Timo what's going on? I died. 

Timo What's going on is that New Mexico has a very small queer, like a tight knit queer community. 

Zakiya Okay. So how did y'all meet? 

Timo Yeah, I met… I met Shug through my most recent ex, and so we're like part of the same friend group. We've had some party nights together and they're incredible. And I've seen them perform multiple times. They're, you know, just like, consummate performer. She's a fucking drag champion, so owns a room, owns the building, owns the street the building is on. 

Zakiya Yeah. Owns the hotline, as we've heard. 

Timo Yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally. 

Zakiya So y'all have hung out multiple times?

Timo We have. Shug still hangs out pretty regularly with my ex, so I haven't actually hung out with her in a while, but. But yeah, you know, over the past few years, we've definitely like, we've definitely hung.

Zakiya Right. And y'all made out.

Timo Yeah. So it was me, my ex and Shug and we were out, like Shug had a show. So we went there and we were like having the best time. She was the headline performer naturally. So we were just like drinking a lot. It was a lot of like getting a little crazy in the like, dressing area room and everything. So I went back there to help her out and we went to some bars or something. I don't know. The thing is, it gets really foggy at a certain point cause there was a lot of alcohol involved. I just remember at some point there was like, you know, there's some cheeky make out. 

Zakiya Okay, so in person, y'all were clearly gelling. You just, they sound charismatic. You were, you were drawn to her to the point where y'all made out. But it doesn't seem like that same chemistry was on the hotline. What do you make of that? 

Timo It was like a playful, it wasn't like romantic kind of attraction in my feeling with Cedar in person either. Like, we're like homies, you know? 

Zakiya Yeah, it's a friend make out. 

Timo Yeah, like a friend make out, partying like a lot of alcohol involved. It did not feel like a, oh, we're having this, you know, like, it's just very different when you're trying to, like, get to know somebody that you're trying to date as opposed to a friend who you're going to be like, partying with and like kind of hanging out more casually with because, like, it's just a different vibe, you know? 

Zakiya Yeah. Yeah. Did you still have those same experiences with Lady Shug out in the wild feeling like, “oh damn, they're kind of steamrolling.” Or in that context, out in the wild, there was more room for all of that chaos?

Timo When I've been with Lady Shug, I feel more like entourage. The stage is going to be for Cedar like the stage is there set, you know? And I'm like, I'm like Cedar's hype person when we've hung out, like. And so when like, there's like not the same expectation of like, give and take. And I think that even though, like, we mesh in the dynamic that we've had, the hang ups have made it clear that like, I don't think there's romantic compatibility. 

Zakiya Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Wait okay, you said something else that I must circle back to cause I'm messy. So you said that Roxanne introduced you to your ex, and Cedar is friends with your ex. So does that mean that Roxanne knows Cedar? 

Timo Yes. Yes. And this is like going to be, we're in the… I'm telling you right now, we're in the midst, I think. I'm worried. It's just like this is going to be friend group and like local, you know, like queer community drama potentially. I don't know. 

Zakiya What exactly are you worried about? 

Timo You know, I think that Roxanne was, like really pulling no punches about how she felt about Cedar. 


Roxanne: I have written down here ‘I think all things opposite of this person.’

They really bugged me.

Zakiya How does Roxanne feel about Cedar IRL?

Timo There's been no indication of, like, “Oh, I don't actually like this person,” you know? So that's really weird. You know, it's just, like, really strange because I guess in the context of this, in the dating and like, again, like in… in the types of communication and, you know, exchange of information and, you know, vulnerability that comes with this format, Cedar reads really differently. And I don't know, there's something here to be resolved, you know, something here to be examined and reflected on in myself, I'm sure, and in Roxanne as well. Like it's a question. 

Zakiya Yeah, no it's definitely like a reality slap in the face because, yeah, we've been on the phone this whole time and we know that, you know, at some point there's going to be an IRL component to this. 

Timo 100%. This is real life too, you know, like there wasn't ever any real dividing line. And so it's good to be… to remember that, you know, but like also I don't think getting rejected by me is going to faze Shug, yeah literally who am I in Shug’s life? 

Zakiya Okay. So let's talk about the remaining two Callers, Salix and Billy. So this last date was very fun and sexy, your Star 69 dates. How would you describe your dates? 

Timo My date with Salix was very… really refreshing. 

Salix But that ass hair though, let me tell you. Testosterone’s a hell of a drug.

Like going on a float down the river, but, like, maybe sunbathing topless. Kind of. Or like, nude or something on our, on our, you know, private float down the river. 

Zakiya That sounds like heaven. 

Timo They're playful and sincere and very sexy and, like, adventurous, you know? And so, like, I just felt like it was a really like a relaxed flow in how we related to each other. And we also were able to talk about our transition experiences, which, you know, I just love T for T for that reason because there's like so much to connect on. I don't know. It felt really, really great and comfortable and sunny and like, sweet. It was great. 

Zakiya That sounds so beautiful. Okay, who's next? 

Timo My date with Billy was also… It was just really good. 

Billy I mean, I hope it's a wonderful evening because mine is vastly awesomer. 

It felt more like we were going on a like a moonlit walk in a forest. You know, Like, I always picture Billy in a forest, like, forever. And it's like she talks and I can hear leaves rustling, you know?

Zakiya Wow.

Timo Billy just has a lot of emotional intelligence, and I find that incredibly sexy. And she also has a lot of experience in the bedroom. And so I also find that sexy. And we kind of didn't want to get off the phone. It was like it was really sweet, you know? It was like, we made it to the clearing in the forest and I just wanted to stay there. It was really nice. 

Zakiya Wow. Okay, so it sounds... they both Salix and Billy's dates both sound so beautiful. 

Timo It's a mood. Like they're both a mood. 

Zakiya Yeah. So which one are you more into? Like, which mood is more your vibe? 

Timo I've been going back and forth, I felt like I knew what I was feeling about this, like three days ago. And now I'm, I don't know again. There are just qualities that Billy has that I just feel really, really drawn to and they've just been through some things, you know, some pretty serious things. And that's something that… I don't know. That's the walk in the moonlight. That's like finding the light in the darkness. That's the feeling I get with Billy. And that really resonates with me. 

Zakiya I hear you. So who do you think you'd be most sexually compatible with? 

Timo I’m kind of leaning towards Salix. You know, Salix has shared some some things with me that made me feel like I… the dynamic with Salix would be more, I would be maybe more a little bit more top, you know. And so I'd, I would feel more like initiating. Whereas with Billy, I feel like we're both verse in this way that you would be like, who's going to take which role right now? 

Zakiya Yeah. 

Timo Which could be like a sexy, you know, almost like edging toward each other thing, you know? But as long as it didn't just, like, stall there, you know what I mean? 

Zakiya Yeah, but, I mean, I remember you and Billy were already talking about fucking on mountaintops after a hike. So it sounds like y'all...

Timo We've got hot talk. Okay. It's like. 

Zakiya Both jump into it.

Timo I just kind of get the vibe. And this might be projection from me being guilty of this, but I can, I can talk the talk sometimes. Sometimes I get a little shy in real person like IRL and I kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm getting that feeling from Billy or maybe I'm projecting that on them. I don't know. 

Zakiya No. Honestly. That is so relatable. Like talking the talk and then especially I feel like something like this. It's really all talk and then you meet in person, it's like, okay, well, who's actually going make the move? It does sound like you were able to connect with both Salix and Billy on different but intimate levels. So are you leaning one way or the other right now between them or you're completely split? 

Timo It seems to fluctuate, you know, even day to day. I've come to know both of them enough, like in this surprising way, like this format being so… like, I just didn't expect this much from it. I mean, it's not to say that I didn't expect it to be cool and like fun and whatever, but like, I'm really enjoying these two people in particular. And I am at the point where I'm looking ahead to a moment where I… I'm going to lose one of them, you know, like I'm going to lose an opportunity with one of them and a door shuts on the other side. And why isn't this show polyamorous is basically what I'm getting at. What is going on here? Like, why do I have to choose? I feel like this date, like we're going to have so much fun and we're all going to be like all three of us, come on, let's go on this vacation. 

Zakiya Yes. All three of y'all hand in hand. 

Timo This is on my vision board right now is me. You know, at the sunset, it's not quite light it's not quite dark. And I've got, you know, Billy and Salix on either side of me. 

Zakiya Oh, what a gorgeous sight. And I don't even know what these people look like, but. 

Timo I know. 

Zakiya I love that. Well, it sounds like you still have a lot to figure out, but luckily, we still have one date left before the final hang up. And the goal of this next date is to get all your questions answered so that you can make your big decision. 

Timo Okay. 

Zakiya Yes. So I think this will be helpful. 

Timo I need help. 

Zakiya I mean, it's a good problem to have that you're split, you’re just like “they both are just so hot and cool.”

Timo It really is like. 

Zakiya Yeah, I kind of love this for you. 

Timo Woe is me. 

Zakiya So the theme of this next date is Three Way, and before the date, I'll prepare questions that you Salix and Billy will all share with me and some of my own questions. During the date, you will be on the hotline with both Billy and Salix, and it'll be kind of like a panel style type of date. 

Timo Panel? 

Zakiya Yes. I'm going to put on my business suit. 

Timo Can we make it like a slumber party? 

Zakiya Okay. Okay. Yeah. Scratch that. Slumber party. We're all in my basement wearing cute PJs, and we're kiking. 

Timo We're playing really old, like, Nintendo. 

Zakiya Oh, I love that. I was going to say spin the bottle, but. 

Timo And also spin the bottle. Oh, my God. It's in your basement. And all three. All four of us? 

Zakiya Yes. 

Timo I am winner winner chicken dinner. 

Zakiya Yeah no it'll be very cute, cause I'll ask a question. And all three of you will answer it, and all of the questions will be anonymous, so things might get spicy. 

Timo Oh, okay. 

Zakiya What do you want to find out on this next date to make your final decision? 

Timo I'd like to know more about like maybe like what’s their 5 year if not plan then like vision. Like are they planning to stay in New Mexico? Cause I have to stay here for family reasons. I’d like to know kind of like, how do they actually feel about kids? Like, have they dated people with kids before? Like, what were those experiences like? And I want to know. I'm trying to quit smoking, but I'm still a smoker. I kind of like to know, like, is that going to bug the shit out of them? Same with being a pothead. So, you know, those kinds of other sort of, like, compatibility things. 

Zakiya Yeah. No, those are all really good questions and things to think about. And I really appreciate how seriously you're thinking about this and hearing you, you know, mull this over and hearing what you want to suss out. It sounds like, you know, you're really considering this as a I don’t want to say serious relationship, but you're thinking long term. You're thinking how could this actually work? 

Timo You know, I don't think it's fair not to at least give it some gravitas in that way, because like if you know, for whatever reason, like this is the meet cute, then those are the kinds of things they should be considering. And, you know, I did I did come into this with a spirit of like I have been very, I've been in retreat. Like I've said, I've been sort of like a very closed off, you know, for good reason, like sort of spending that time really intentionally with myself for for, you know, almost like two years now. But, you know, maybe this is an opportunity to to shift that tide. And if if I… If I don't take it seriously, then maybe it won't be serious. You know what I mean? Like, I'm willing to give it, give it a serious look. 

Zakiya Would you say that you have real feelings for them? And not necessarily in the way of like, “Oh, at the end of this, I can't wait to marry Salix or Billy.” But real as in like, oh, like, you know, maybe some crush feelings that could grow into...

Timo Oh, absolutely. 

Zakiya Yeah?

Timo Yes, I'm crushing. And I will be seriously disappointed if, you know, like, at this point I would be… you were asking me before, you're like, oh, you know, you're not going to be that disappointed if they take the money and everything. And I'm like, at this point, actually, I think I would be. I think that has definitely shifted for me over this time. It's getting really, really real. I mean, it was always real, but I'm like, I’m really feeling it this week. Oh, my God. Yeah. Here I am all vulnerable. I was like, “I'm just too cool for school. It’ll be fine.”

Zakiya It would hurt a little bit that that's natural. 

Timo Well, I think the feelings change over time. And really, like, I was feeling that in the beginning. But the process like has actually revealed some really, some potential and some feelings and some like things that are, things that are tingling, that haven't tingled in a while. You know what I mean? 

Zakiya Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, taking the vacation would mean that they like you back. 

Timo Exactly. So validate me. 

Zakiya Yeah. They choose you. Yeah. 

Timo Worship me. 

Zakiya Especially because, you know, this is your first time getting back into dating after taking a break from dating for almost two years. So if the winning caller does take the cash and leave you behind, do you think you'll get back out there in dating? 

Timo I think I will. You know what mean? Like, I think this has been encouragement and, like, reassuring. Like I said, I'm like, Oh my God, I met not one, but two really intriguing and special people. There's good people out there and there's opportunity and it just is a good reminder that there is possibility, and I should find ways to embrace that again. 

Zakiya Oh, I love that. Well, I cannot wait to be part of your date this week. This sexy panel slumber party in my basement. 

Timo The only panel is going to be on the back of my pajama set. 

Zakiya Maybe at the end of it, it'll be unbuttoned. Who knows? 

Coming up, things get heated on the three way date.

Billy: May the Three Way begin.

Stay on the line!

Robot voice: Welcome to the Hang Up Hotline. To enter, please say the password.

Zakiya: Winner winner chicken dinner.

Robot voice: You may enter.

Zakiya Hello Timo, Billy and Salix. 

Everyone Hi. Hi. 

Zakiya This is your final date. So quick refresher of what's going to happen next week on Decision Day. First, Billy and Salix, y’all will lock in your prize if you win, vacation or money. Then, Timo will hang up on one of you and choose the winning Caller. Finally, the winning Caller will reveal their choice. Either a cash prize of $1,000 and walking away from Timo. Or an all expenses paid vacation with Timo taking the love connection from Hang Up into the real world. 

Timo Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 

Zakiya Well, I can hear what Timo wants y'all to choose. But I can't wait to find out what you choose. So let's get started on this final date. Each of you submitted questions to me that you need answered before you make this decision. I've added some of my own and mixed them all up so y'all won't be able to know who the question comes from. And each of you will have to answer each question. Are y'all ready? 

Timo Yes. 

Billy May the Three Way begin. 

Salix It's about to get messy. 

Zakiya It is indeed. First question. Do you feel like you've gotten what you wanted out of this experience already? Or is what you're wanting to come? No pun intended. 

Billy How how? 

Salix Probably fair to say that we all want to come. 

Timo I feel like the three of us have chemistry. Honestly. 

Billy I am so in agreement. 

Zakiya Me, too. Yeah I hear it. 

Timo I feel like I'll speak up on this one. Yeah, for sure. I feel like I got, I've already gotten more than I bargained for because I kind of went into this with, you know, like, not low expectations, like, “Oh, this is going to be bad.” But just like, I have no idea, you know, like, I'll be surprised. So the fact that it's actually been a genuine and like really fun process and I really like everybody, like I said. Yeah. 

Salix Yeah. I would also mirror that. Like, I think that I also kind of came in with like just not trying to expect anything, like no expectations and just being like, it is what it is, like, we'll see what happens. And I feel like the connections that I feel like I've made on here, I feel like I don't know, like I feel like Timo and I have had really good chemistry and I think that while, of course I want to win. I'm like, I'm very happy with, like, with like what this experience has been. And it's it's been it's been really a cool thing to be a part of. 

Billy Yeah. I am so pleasantly surprised and like, exceeded expectations to the point of, like, feeling a little fear. So that means there's some good vulnerability, I think. I think so, yeah. 

Zakiya Okay. What's a topic you could give an impromptu 30 minute talk about? 

Billy Anything like ecology or social justice or like farming, food system, like those feel like the things. 

Salix Um, I would definitely talk about how cowboys were black, brown and queer. I could talk about that for hours. 

Timo Yes. 

Billy Can we arrange that please? Who are you? 

Salix I have a I have a PowerPoint presentation and everything. I'm not even joking.

Billy I can't wait to meet you.

Timo I could probably. Yeah, I have a few things I could probably give a 30 minute talk on. That's hard to top. That's. That's pretty amazing. I could give a 30 minute talk on how to create, like, a pantry that you can, like, make meals out of. Like, I know how to stock a kitchen. 

Salix Oh, yes, please. 

Billy I've been searching for you all my life. 

Zakiya Alright. Next question. What do your friends typically think about your romantic partners? 

Zakiya Whoever laughed the hardest has to go first. 

Timo Okay. I think they would say that my... I'm really struggling with this one. They'd say that I don't know how to pick people. Kind of bewilderment is the feeling I've gotten from them in terms of like for most of the relationships that they've known me in, they're just like, “What? Why? Like, how does this make sense?” And they were right. I don't know. I think that's what they would say. 

Zakiya So, Salix, how about you go next? What are your friends typically think about your romantic partners? 

Salix Um, my friends don't think anything because I've not had a romantic partner since making my adult friends. So. Yeah. They don't know what to think. 

Zakiya Billy, what about you? 

Billy I think the feedback is usually something akin to they're never good enough for me. And I might agree with them.

Zakiya What are your bad habits or coping mechanisms when you feel stressed or burned out? 

Salix Take a nap. I’m like I feel so overwhelmed. I can't do anything. I'm just going to sit here. Whatever it involves, it involves doing literally nothing of the things I need to do. So. 

Billy I think, like hiding or or over activity. 

Timo Totally. I relate to both of those a lot. Yeah. I, I chew my cuticles. I'm like full of habits that are poor coping mechanisms like that. I'm kind of a yeah, a little fidgety and then, yeah, I, I think I vacillate between those, between those things where sometimes I kind of freeze and I'm like, okay, I'm going to do doomscroll, I got to check out my mind for a little while and then for sure, then I'll have these weird manic bursts and I'm like, I got to do everything. Those are all in my repertoire. 

Billy Vast array of possibilities. 

Timo Oh, wait until you see, It's just a bouquet of, you know, neuroses over here. 

Zakiya Honestly, I am obsessed with bouquet of neuroses, and I need that on a shirt immediately. Okay. Well, on that note of coping mechanisms and habits and all of that. Do you smoke? Do y'all smoke? We're talking about cigarettes and weed. 

Salix I smoke a cigarette occasionally, like once and once in a while. Like socially. I used to smoke weed, but I no longer can because of my job. So unfortunately no.

Timo Oh no.

Billy No smoking. Nothing. Like weed smoking can be tough for me just because I think it can make people less present and that sometimes can feel tough relationally. And also it's fine. I guess. 

Timo Interesting. I do smoke both weed and cigars. I have been often on cigarettes for like since I was 11 years old. But yeah, I definitely smoke weed. That's kind of one of those coping mechanisms.

Billy Absolutely. 

Zakiya Okay. Next question. Do you have any kids in your life that you mentor or help care for? 

Timo I have. Well, obviously I have my two kids and yeah, that's, that's primarily. And then, I don't know, like there's a couple of my kids’ friends who I sometimes I don't know interact with, they’ll come hang out and they're they're fun too. 

Billy I, I don't presently. I worked with youth for 18 years and so I, there are so many kiddos who are now grown ups, but it's not, it's not relationality in like the familial way that I think is being asked about but that is as kind of as close as I am. 

Salix That's awesome. I also worked with youth for not as long as you, but but for quite a few years now. I don't currently have any kids in my life. Yeah, the kids that I used to work with are all like adults and graduated. 

Timo Why did you pick the names that you picked?

Salix So Salix is the Latin root for willows. And it was also it was one of the names of my former DND character that I played. I was trying to, like, look for…It was like taking place in, like, this Arctic setting. I was, like, trying to find, like, Arctic plants. And there's this, like, Arctic willow. 

Billy Oh, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that. 

Salix Really nerdy. 

Billy No, it's really great. I thought I thought it was a plant name. I didn't want to assume. I love a willow, I'm going down this whole ethno botanical road in my mind. Thank you for the insight. Yeah, I… I think I chose Billy when I when I was really young and have used it for purposes I won't share because it would expose my identity. But it showed up because I didn't want to be a girl. And so, I just thought Billy was like the best boy name on the planet. That's the beginnings of it I can't share the rest of it. 

Timo I love that, but I have a follow up question. So did you ever want to go by William or just Billy? 

Billy Billy and always with a y. I never did any of this “ie” business. Also, like, my first boyfriend, his name was William, and he had one testicle, and he was terrible, you know? 

Salix Oh, my God. 

Billy Names have a lot of significance, I think. 

Salix Wow. I love that. 

Timo Oh, my God. I'm dead. 

Zakiya Oh, my gosh. I…Y'all are a lot of fun, is all I have to say. Okay. 

Timo I'm telling you what we're going to get out of here tonight is that this is a three way polyamorous relationship now. We're all going on vacation. 

Zakiya Honestly. What is your relationship style? Poly, Monog, ENM? 

Billy I swing or am learning from like Dr. Kim Tallbear’s kind of set up for non-monogamy or polyamory and then also like inter-relationship anarchy like just kind of like very keen on like naming the dynamics of relationship and like that there are many ways to be in relationship. So I don't feel like I'm like diehard about being like being with multiple folks. I feel like I'm more diehard about just like people are like, mutually consenting to relationship dynamics. 

Salix I'm kind of like, I think trying to go for something a little bit more low key and open and just being like instead of rather having the pressure of like, “this has to be a monogamous relationship that is like the, the one ring for rule them all.” Like, yeah, I don't know. I'm just I'm just like trying to, to see. If like taking that pressure off of myself, like helps me to be able to like, be more open to various types of like, relationships I guess. 

Timo Mhm. I feel that. I would describe myself as an armchair polyamorist. 

Billy I never heard of that. 

Timo That's right off the dome baby. I'm ambitious about, like, not ambitious, but, like, not just open to it, but, like, I really feel like I resonate with, you know. Yeah. Like more of an open situation potentially with, you know. But I also know, like I, I have not as many spoons as it takes to like manage a polycule. You know and that and the other thing is I guess that I would say is that like, when you're in a relationship with somebody for a lot of years, you're never in the same relationship all the time, that relationship’s changing all the time. So I think the idea of being like declaring this like this is the monogamous relationship like forever or even a polyamorous relationship forever. It doesn't really honor the fact that those dynamics can shift over the years. And like, it's good to have a sense of like, like deep time in terms of like, oh, if we're really looking at being and working together and being a partnership for a long time, there is going to be changes and shifts at different points. 

Zakiya Okay. Well, here's another question. What was a moment on one of your dates that gave you pause? 

Billy Can I nominate Timo to go first? 

Timo Oh my gosh. 

Salix I back that. 

Zakiya I will allow it. 

Billy This three-way dynamic is going fabulous. 

Timo Yeah you guys are just teaming up on me. And I love it. OK fine. Okay. Pause. What gave me pause? So with Billy, I would say that I think she's smarter than me, and that's not okay. Super red flag. I have to be the smartest. 

Billy I assure you, our smarts are not the same. And thank you for the bizarre compliment. 

Timo Yeah. No, I think I don't have a lot of information about, like, where you're at in your life. And so I'm just like, you seem like a free spirit and you want to, like, probably, you know, I don't know how grounded you are to this space. And I don't know, like I, I guess there was a moment when we were talking or I was like, I don't know if Billy will be here in five years, you know what I mean? So there was I don't know, there was like, maybe that was something on my mind where I'm like, okay. Which I don't know. It's like, silly. Why am I thinking about five years from now we're just like here on a podcast? We just met. 

Billy Also love this compliment. Well, I guess I'm going to confess and respond if that's okay. Yeah, I. I thought when you said pause, I thought you really talking about like, like a, like a moment of pause, like a breathtaking moment. So my head was in a really other place when this conversation began. Anyways. But. And then I guess I also want to respond to being somebody who frequently is read as being like, flighty. And like, I really pride myself on my situativeness and my staying and my agreements and I just wanted to name that. That's all. 

Timo Mm hmm. Maybe something that was, like, jumped out at me at first for Salix, I, you know, like, I honestly, the age gap is a little bit of a thing where, like, not because of you or, you know, you don't come off like a decade younger than me. But at the same time, you know, I just think about what that means and if other parts of our lives would align. Just because ten years can make a difference in certain stuff. Can I ask a follow up question? 

Zakiya Sure. 

Timo Um. Do you like? I don't know. Do you think I'm too old for you? 

Salix I'm going to be honest. I completely forgot about the age gap. I remember. I guess the thing that I had, like, pause of at the very beginning was like, “Oh, I'm like the youngest person on this show.” And then I completely forgot about that. 

Timo Yeah, okay. 

Billy That's amazing. 

Salix So it was not anything that had crossed my mind. I kind of, I honestly, I don't even remember how old you are. 

Timo Awesome. Well, thank you for answering that, because, like, I don't know, like, super self-conscious about that. And, like, I don't know. Yeah, that's enough from me. God damn it.

Zakiya If you go on the vacation together, what is your best case scenario for where this relationship will go? 

Timo To the moon. 

Billy Great answer. 

Timo I don't know. I don't know. The best case scenario is that I would have a friend and like it would open up a new community and we'd have some great sex. I don't know. 

Salix I would second that, I feel about the same. Yeah. Yeah. 

Billy I feel so conflicted about the vacation vibe. However. I think if, if Timo and I proceeded to date. I. I feel like best case scenario would be like maybe some integration and community and just like some some spiciness and sexiness, some eating, some growth.

Zakiya Okay, well, we're coming to the end of this date. So in just a few sentences, make the case for you to be chosen. 

Timo Okay. Please. Please. Choose me. I beg you. Okay. For real. For serious. Okay. You should. You should go on the vacation with me. Because obviously, we need to keep this party going. This is really fun. And it would only be more fun in person. I feel like there's so, so, so many things and avenues that haven't gotten talked about, like so many tangents that need like threads that need to be picked back up or, you know, like there's, there's just that feeling. It's not going to be complete, you know, we can't really like… until we get across the finish line and like actually meet each other, hang out. And also I will go down on you probably. 

Salix I think you should pick me because I think that yeah, I like, I have so many other things that I would like love to talk to you about and things that, like, I felt like we were not able to get into, you know, we still have that bag of mysteries to finish. So. Um, so I just think it would be, I would just, I think it would be a great time. And I think that we could have a lot of fun together and just have a lot of really good conversations.

Timo Hell, yeah.

Billy I don't I don't think I don't think I'm like with a pitch except that, like, it's it's really rad to connect. And it would be… I am so much more an in real life person and that would be really delightful. And yeah, and I, I do want to contest that we can't all go together, I guess. And, and also, yeah, it just. It's just. If it's feeling like mutually rad, then that would be really phenomenal. 

Zakiya Thank you all so much. For your honesty on this date. I hope you have everything you need to make your final choice and you have one week to think on it. The next time I see you, I will be seeing you in person. And we're going to find out who gets the last hang up and who is our winner. And finally, if you choose a vacation with Timo or if you decide to give them the hang up. 

Hang Up is created and produced by me, Caitlin Pierce.

Our host and story editor is Zakiya Gibbons.

Our sound designer, mix engineer, and story editor is Ben Montoya.

And that’s it— our whole team is just three people. We put so much time and love into Hang Up because we believe in this show— And we get to make it weird and silly and queer and exactly what we want it to be because we are independent.

But to stay independent, we need your support. Here’s a few ways you can help:

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We can’t do it alone— thank you for your support.

Our sounding board is Allison Behringer, Karla Corrales, Chioke I’Anson, and Grayum Vickers.

Music by Jeff Carter and Stephen Pathe of Sandy - hear more at sandy-sounds.com

Show Art by Alex Teschel

Season Two Art by Marquez Torres.

Studio recording by Jeremy Goody at Megasonic Sound.

This episode uses many sounds from Freesound, for the full list check out our website— hangupshow.com.

Special thanks to Bess Friedman, Trevor Birt, Oliver Yaney, Toni of Albuquerque Social Club, Michael Burdick of Sidewinders, Quinn Heraty, Nellie Giles, and the Radio Diaries team. 

Thanks also to the people supporting us at Radiotopia and PRX.

Hang Up is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia.fm.

Next week, it's Decision Day! And I very much recommend throwing a listening party. 🥳

For Season 1, we asked people to vote on what they thought would happen before each reveal. And of course, we had plenty of High Noons and gum on hand ;)

S2 Episode 6: Three-Way