Hey y’all! It's me, Caitlin Pierce: the creator and producer of Hang Up. Welcome to another Exit Interview episode, where I'll take you behind the scenes with one of the Callers who got the hang up.

So if you’re not caught up and aren’t yet ready to hear who got hung up on, this is your chance to pause and go back and listen.

Today I’m here with… Cedar. Cedar got the hang up after the *69 date. And they gagged us all when they revealed their true identity.

Cedar: So I am known in my drag persona as Lady Shug, I perform all over the US

And then, we were gagged again when we found out that Cedar and Timo actually know each other IRL … extremely well.

Timo: Shug, we have hung out, we have drunk together, we have been… we have made out.

But this was all after a lot had already been said about Cedar…

Cedar: The mama's boy, loudmouth, showboat, fake. For the reunion, I'm going to have all these phrases on my dress.

So today we’ll finally hear how Cedar feels about what was said about her, and how she navigated being on Hang Up while hiding her true identity.

Cedar: And it was hard because I really couldn't be authentically myself. I think if I was that Timo would probably be in love with me.

And if you already know you’re gonna want more— we have a longer version of this interview on our website, hangupshow.com.

Caitlin: Hi Cedar. 

Cedar: Hello.

Caitlin: It's great to talk to you. We talked a lot during the season, kind of behind the scenes, our own little private Untucked episodes. 

Cedar: Yes.

Caitlin: I'm glad to talk to you actually, and record so listeners can hear what your real thoughts are.

Cedar: Oh, we're going to get all, we’re gonna get down to the nitty gritty right now. They ain't ready for it.

Caitlin: Oh my God. I'm so ready. Yeah, so I know you have a lot to share.

Cedar: Well, apparently I talk too much. That friend just rubbed me the wrong way.

Caitlin: The friend of Timo’s?

Cedar: Mhm. And I think that me being so aggressive towards them, they weren't used to that. I don't know. She was giving me this snooty white privilege lady that's all about Christmas. I'm like, girl, it's like one of those friends that you can't have an opinion or you can't be different. And yes, honey, I am an artist and I am weird. So get over it. Get over yourself. You're self-absorbed more than I am. But also real tea too. I already know Timo, we've already swiped saliva a few times. I've already gotten the treasure with Timo over there. So I think at the point when I figured it out, I was just like, okay, now this is a game. Let's see how long I can last. It was fun. I was playing for the cash at this point.

Caitlin: Okay, so you were sure. You were like, I'm going to take the money. Yeah.

Cedar: I think halfway, halfway. If I was going to make it to top two, I probably would've left because, so the top two left, I feel like they really have a connection. So who am I to be… see, this is my good side that I guess nobody saw that I would've bowed out because they generally made a connection between the top two and Timo. Billy and Salix. Yeah, that would be shady of me, just because I knew I was going to take the money. I would not be in good conscience to not let them see what happens in this connection.

Caitlin: You're saying that but Billy and Salix could also still take the money. You don't know what they're going to pick.

Cedar: Don't let them interview me because I'll tell them. Exactly. I'm just kidding.

Caitlin: You said that on your way out. You said “take the money” after you got hung up.

Cedar: I did. I, but that was the playful side of me too.

Caitlin: The idea of hangup is that we're introducing new people who might not have explored a romantic connection together yet, but you and Timo had already done that. So do you feel like there was any path for you guys, or do you feel like that had already been explored?

Cedar: No. We've already been explored, but also at that, oh my gosh, my friend's going to kill me. This is too much tea. So at the time, the reason why I met Timo, it's so hard for me to call them Timo. Cause I’m like, I know their real name. At the time, Timo was dating one of my friends. There was a lot of flirting. Obviously, we were both highly attracted to my friend. So you know, girls will be girls, I kissed a girl and I liked it. So I mean, I don't know what to explain. So they had a relationship, but I was kind of like, I don't want to say the third wheel. I guess I could say a third wheel, but I was a fun third wheel.

Caitlin: So were you attracted to Timo’s partner?

Cedar: Yeah, my friend.

Caitlin: Oh, okay. Gotcha. Not just Timo or were you also attracted to Timo?

Cedar: I was attracted to Timo, but I think I was more attracted to Timo because my friend was in a relationship with them, and I think he enjoyed that we were exploring boundaries and they were just watching, oh my God, this is horrible. This is too much. Oh my gosh, now that I'm thinking about it. Caitlin, you are shady. You are shadier than Andy Cohen. Oh my gosh.

Caitlin: Wow. I'm going to frame that. 

Cedar: Put it on a T-shirt and put it on the website. I am shadier than Andy Cohen.

Caitlin: I am. I think this is a good time to tell you who Roxanne is because she's involved in all of this.

Cedar: Damn, and you told me that I knew who they are, or they know who I am.

Caitlin: You know her well, apparently.

Cedar: Damn, that's even worse.

Caitlin: Can I tell you? I'll bleep her name when I say it.

Cedar: Tell me I'm scared. Wait, lemme take a breath. Maybe I should take a shot. Oh my God. Maybe I should take a hit. I don't know. Wait, hold on. Okay, go ahead.

Caitlin: *bleep*

Cedar: Oh, oh my God. Oh my God. Wow. I was just kidding, girl. I didn't mean to call you white privilege, Christmas ass bitch or whatever I said. Oh my goodness, girl, she's going to hate me forever. I don't know, see, I don't know if they're putting a front on, because Roxanne in person is not like that, but over the phone was totally snooty, but in person, totally different person. So it's so weird that you said that’s them. Wow. Now this makes all sense. Now I know exactly what ex they're talking about. Oh my gosh.

Caitlin: Exactly.

Cedar: Oh my gosh.

Caitlin: Because it's like the whole friend group.

Cedar: Well, welcome to New Mexico where we share everybody, queer people, we all date each other. If not each other. Our exes or our future exes date each other, and then it comes back to you full circle.

Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's a lot of queer communities can identify with that, but also…

Cedar: Also, no, but Albuquerque is even smaller. Why do you think I'm comfortable living in Farmington all by myself over here?

Caitlin: Yes. No, I've absolutely learned that pretty soon this season.

Cedar: Caitlin, I, I'm destroyed. You got me. Insert explosions right now. My mind is blown.

Caitlin: I want to ask you about that because there's kind of layers of personas that you have during hangup. You know, you are Shug and then you are Lady Shug, and then you are Cedar, but you're also this person who knows Timo in real life. So how was it navigating all the layers there?

Cedar: Madness. Complete madness. I mean, I was really nervous because I automatically assumed that somebody was going to clock me or figure out who I was fairly quickly. So I kind of had to not really be myself, but kind of put another alter ego on top of Shug. And it was hard because I really couldn't be authentically myself. I think if I was that Timo would probably be in love with me, but we'll talk about that at the reunion. Because I was trying to pretend not to be myself, so in the hopes that I would not get recognized. It was a game within a game for me.

Caitlin: Totally. You have worked with so many different producers on so many different shows. Notably, we've mentioned HBO’s We’re Here, but so far on Hang Up, you're the first celebrity or public figure that we worked with. Usually to do casting, I post flyers and post and then wait for people to apply, but I actually reached out to you to see if you would be interested. So how did you feel when you got my email? Or what did you think?

Cedar: I don't know. I ran it by my management, my assistant, of course, my mom. I'm apparently the self-proclaimed mama's boy. But hey, I hold onto that. That's a part of me and who I am. But I don't know. I was nervous about it. I mean, let's be honest, I've been single for a really long time, but the only reason why I really did it is because I was like, let's just take a chance of maybe I will find love, or maybe I'll see another perspective of how other people see me when it comes to dating.

Caitlin: Yeah so when I do the casting, I try to avoid people knowing each other, and it's really hard because obviously I can't go to people and say, do you know this person? Cause then I'm telling you who the people are who participate. I did see that Timo followed you, but a lot of people follow you. So I didn't know that…

Cedar: But was I following Timo back is the question?

Caitlin: I don't think you were.

Cedar: No, I'm not. I still had not thought. Yeah.

Caitlin: Exactly. So there's no breadcrumbs here. I legitimately had no idea y'all knew each other, let alone that you know each other extremely…

Cedar: We know each other quite well, very very well.

Caitlin: Apparently.

Cedar: I don't think they could handle a day in the life of the life of Cedar or Shug for that most part. I guess I am too much.

Caitlin: I think that was clear in the series. It felt like your energy was so different and so your own thing, and stood out, and so…

Cedar: Oh, thank you. Are you single? Are you hitting on me? Apparently I didn't get that vibe with Timo. Girl, bye.

Caitlin: And so, because that's how I felt. I also was worried people would clock you, but instead it seemed like the assumption or a lot of the feedback you got, or as you heard people were saying, you were too much, Muriah said you were fake, you know like these things that…

Cedar: Wait, when did Muriah say that? Girl, we didn't have beef, Muriah, now you… What's good, Muriah? I'm going to see you at the reunion. What's good, Muriah? Did she really say that? I don't think I heard that.

Caitlin: Yeah, she says it in her exit interview.

Cedar: Oh, damn.

Caitlin: So I do want to talk about that because I honestly, the original idea of Hang Up was to be in contrast to traditional reality shows where it seems like a lot of times they really hurt the people who participate in them, and sometimes it feels like the producers are trying to do that, and there's a part of me that's scared that that might have happened to you here. Do you feel hurt?

Cedar: No. The younger me, yes, I would've been destroyed, but I think I have such of a strong backbone right now that I'm like, girl, next. What's next?

Caitlin: You know, I don't know. Dating over the phone with a stranger on a podcast has to be super weird experience. I've never done it. You've done it.

Cedar: Well, I've done it officially,

Caitlin: And I feel like there is maybe for everyone, a little bit of a persona that you're putting on, but it seemed like it kind of sunk you. If you could have just been Shug from the beginning, what would that have been like?

Cedar: It would've been interesting. I would see if I really make connection. I wasn't telling the real truth I was just getting by by then because I didn't want to still get exposed.

Caitlin: Yeah. 

Can you draw some lines between who is Cedar versus who is Lady Shug versus maybe who is Shug?

Cedar: Yeah, so Lady Shug’s when you officially sign a check and deposit it.

Caitlin: She's a business woman.

Cedar: All my good, my relatives, my comrades, I don't even call them my fans, my family on social media, on and off. They all know me by Shug. That's it. I think that's why I'm comfortable in Shug. Shug has made so many, opened so many doors for me, Cedar was just another aspect of Lady Shug, but trying to, I guess, play a game. It's just basically, this turned into Traitors. So Traitors casting call. If you're out there, you need to put me on your show.

Caitlin: Oh my God, please.

Cedar: Yeah. I think I had to put a persona on because honestly, if I was authentically myself, I would've been very unapologetically indigenous. I would've talked a lot about my culture, about who I am as an indigenous person. I would've talked about my queerness, my transness as an indigenous person. I also would've talked about my activism work with unsheltered relatives with trans youth. I also would've talked about me challenging places and bars and prides to bring indigenous excellence. I would've brought that because a lot of people love me because of that, because that's who I am. I mean, Lady Shug is built off of her community and where she's from, and so I think if I would've talked more about that, I know for a fact already that Timo loves that aspect of Shug, AKA Cedar. So if I was to lean on that more, I think I would've went very far.

Caitlin: And you had to conceal all that because if you had said all those, yeah, then everyone would've known who you were.

Cedar: I was scared to be clocked. Like, was it Monica Beverly Hills from Drag Race? “Not a soul can clock.” I was not trying to get clocked.

Caitlin: So you mentioned the Mama's Boy thing. There's certain parts of you that you could share, and then maybe that's why they came up again and again a little more often than they would otherwise because you couldn't share a bunch of other things.

Cedar: Yeah. Technically, I am a mama's boy just because I'm an only child. I've been raised by a strong matriarchy, and I thought, let me run with this persona. Being a mama’s boy is not a bad thing. And I would think that Timo would kind of relate being a parent themselves. I don't know. They were trying to edit me to be the villain and be the loud mouth, which is fine, but…

Caitlin: Wait, are you saying in Hang Up you were being edited to be the villain or the loudmouth?

Cedar: The mama's boy, loudmouth, showboat, fake. For the reunion, I'm going to have all these phrases on my dress.

Caitlin: How do you…? I mean, I am really open because I don't want you to not say what you really want to say, but it does. Hearing you say that, and I think what you're saying is true, like those were things that were said about you on the show. I hate that. My biggest fear is that this show would hurt someone or make someone feel bad, and

Cedar: Totally, I agree too.

Caitlin: I was so worried about that with this episode, especially the Second Phone a Friend episode. And so do you feel like you were edited unfairly at all?

Cedar: No. It was correct. I wish they edited the part where I asked, because I don't know if any of the other contestants asked… because I asked questions back.

Caitlin: Yeah, we did have one question that you asked that caused a lot of tension between you and Roxanne.

Cedar: Yeah. See, I tell you, that's the one. That's the one I said, “How long have you been friends?” Was there another one?

Caitlin: The one that was in is when you ask how she would feel about Timo moving away to be with a romantic partner. Yeah, that Roxanne really did not like that.

Cedar: But that was after I asked her how long they'd been in a relationship. 

Clip:

Cedar: Can I ask how long you and Timo have been friends?

Roxanne:

We have been very good friends for, I want to say five years. It's funny that I don't actually know how many years because it just seems like a very long time regardless. 

Cedar: Okay.

Roxanne: So yeah, not like some, we're not ancient friends, but in a way we are, I guess you could say.

Cedar: Okay. So my best friend, I would say that if they were to do this interview, it's probably about going on 16 years.

Roxanne: Okay. Yeah.

Cedar: Interesting. Okay.

Cedar: So I guess she wasn't used to or they weren't ready to give it back. But like I said, at that point, after I knew who Timo was, and especially with that conversation with Roxanne, which who I know personally.

Caitlin: Apparently.

Cedar: Yeah, allegedly.

Caitlin: Allegedly. Rumor has…

Cedar: Rumor has it. Yes, I love it. Come on producer. But no, you guys, you guys, I'm not saying it in an ill way that I was produced to be the evil person or the loud mouth. Everything was beautiful and it was fun. It really was a beautiful experience. I mean, it really took me out of my shell. Maybe I can become an actor now.

Caitlin: Well, yeah. And I'm asking you this not for you to say, “oh no, everything was great.” I really do want to hear that. I want to that feedback because of that deep, deep fear of mine of I don't want to harm people. I just want to make something really joyful. I want people to have beautiful experiences and connect, and if I'm doing something to hurt someone, even in the process of making that experience for other people, then it's not worth it for me. And I've had, every edit I had was, I was listening with Shug ears. I was just imagining you listening to it.

Cedar: You're so sweet.

Caitlin: Like, how do I feel? I feel like through this process, it's not like we're besties or anything, but I feel like I've gotten to know you pretty well…

Cedar: Yeah. I feel like we're besties. That's why I said, are you trying to hit on me girl? Just kidding. No, it was a beautiful experience for you to bring queer fluid people together and try to find love. It's beautiful. I'm happy to be part of it. It was fun. I mean, don't worry about me. I'm not in any dark spaces, but if anybody's listening or any of the contestants that got cut, if you need to talk to somebody, you have Caitlin here. You can even call me and follow me on Instagram. Lady Shug Drag. That's Lady Shug. L-A-D-Y-S-H-U-G-D-R-A-G. Follow me on Lady on Instagram if you need to talk or if I said something about you didn't like send me a dm. Let's talk about it.

Caitlin: So I… you said at the beginning that one of the reasons you wanted to do Hang Up was maybe you would get a different perspective on or see how others perceive you while you're dating. What did you learn from this?

Cedar: I learned you have to be yourself regardless if you, what do you call it celebrity or D-list celebrity?

Caitlin: No. Public figure.

Cedar: Public figure. Be yourself. I think I would've went further. I probably would've been top two.

Caitlin: Yeah. And I think too, especially in reality dating people, the idea that someone would be fake or playing a game or trying to do it to get famous, which a lot of people do on like Love is Blind and those kind of shows.

Cedar: I've already been on HBO. I don’t need it.

Caitlin: Exactly. I know you don't, but I just feel like people…

Cedar: Just kidding. Roxanne's probably cringing right now.

Caitlin: I just feel like anytime people feel, sense that energy of someone's not here for the express purpose of dating first, they get so much judgment. And I feel like you were that person this season.

Cedar: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Like I said, I had so much fun. The crew was amazing. We had some good cutups. I'm excited to meet all the other cast members, so that should be exciting. Apparently me and Muriah are supposed to be dating.

Caitlin: Yeah, that would be interesting. An interesting twist.

Cedar: Hey, there might be a makeout session. Who knows?

Caitlin: Who knows? Is there any, maybe… are any of the other Callers calling your name?

Cedar: One of the two, one of the top two…

Caitlin: Billy and Salix.

Cedar: One of them. I forgot who it was. I forgot who, freaked out when I disclosed who I was. They were like, oh my God, I know who you are. I follow you on social media.

Caitlin: That was Billy. That was Billy.

Cedar: Billy for the win.

Caitlin: Oh, okay. Team Billy. Okay. Okay.

Cedar: But also take the money Billy, run.

Caitlin: You want Billy to win and take the money. That's what we're putting out into the universe. Okay.

Cedar: If it happens, it was not edited. It is not edited.

Caitlin: Do you find it's hard to date as a public figure, as someone who maybe people think they know you, but they don't really know you because they know your public persona?

Cedar: Yeah, it's very hard. A lot has to do with, I travel a lot, I do a lot of stuff. I'm getting ready to go back on the road. So a lot of that is hard to date. And I think if the person’s already have a mindset that I need to be here nine to five, or hey, there might be somebody that recognizes me and they want to talk to me, I have to give time to them. Or if I'm at a community space or at a rally, I'm going to go there first before… I'm going to put my needs or our needs of the person I'm dating of other people before ours. So I think I would need somebody to do that.

Caitlin: If there's one thing we know about you is that you go all in. So I could see how that's hard when it comes to dating.

Cedar: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, would I love to have a partner to come to after traveling the world and taking indigenous resistance to the max? Yes, but I don't know. We'll see. Season Three Lady Shug’s going to be the main person. Plot twist!

Caitlin: Dreamy. So usually at the end of exit interviews, we give callers the option of saying who they really are, but we already know you're the one, the only Lady Shug.

Cedar: The official. The first ever.

Caitlin: So for people listening, can you tell them how they can follow you, how they can support your work?

Cedar: Of course. What's up my relatives? My name is Lady Shug. I am a drag artist. I come from the Diné Tribe, which is the Navajo Nation, which is the largest indigenous tribe in the US. I do activism work for unsheltered relatives, trans youth, elderly, especially during Covid. You can look up hashtag Shug Challenge if you want to donate. That's S-H-U-G challenge. You can also follow me on all social media, which is Lady Shug Drag. That's L-A-D-Y-S-H-U-G-D-R-A-G. And you can also look for the LaLaLandBack tour that I'm currently on with my sister, Landa Lakes. She's from Chickasaw Tribe. And we are traveling to communities to pride, to organizations, to museums, bringing drag excellence to the forefront, because a lot of times indigenous people are not afforded the opportunity to talk, speak, perform. So we're breaking that boundary down. So hopefully you can check me out on the road or follow me on social media. You can also see me on the Emmy winning and Peabody show We’re Here. They're currently on Season Four. You can see me on season one and season two. But yeah, and I just want to tell everybody as I do when I usually do lives and stuff, it doesn't matter who you love. It's important that you know that's you’re loved. And me, myself, Lady Shug and all the producers and crew of Hang Up, just know that you are loved.

Caitlin: Shug. I'm just so grateful for all the time that we've shared, and I'm really looking forward to this reunion.

Cedar: Hey, all you Hang Up, please go to all your platforms where you are listening to podcasts, like subscribe, share. The more that you guys do that, it's free. You don't have to donate. Even if you can donate, donate, buy their merchandise. But the biggest thing, it's free. Tell a friend, even tell your enemy, even tell your ex to listen to the show because guess what? We need more queer representation. And at The Hang Up Show has been fabulous, and I want them to continue. Hey, you never know. There might be an All Stars Hang Up show and you might hear me again.

Caitlin: Oh my God, yes, please. And…

Cedar: Also, if you are in the area, see, I guess I do cut people off. If you are in the area, Albuquerque, New Mexico, we're doing the Hang Up Show Reunion, season two, starring Lady Shug at the Albuquerque Social Club. So make sure you look out for that and come out.

Caitlin: Yes, it'll be Saturday, July 13th, and we'll have more info on that.

Cedar: I'm bringing security.

Caitlin: Do you know the next time you see Timo face to face at the reunion, do you have your first question you want to ask them or something you want to say?

Cedar: You just have to wait for the look. I'm telling you, I might be flipping tables. I don't know. Who knows?

If you are still thirsty for even more tea, you can listen to a longer version of this interview on our website at hangupshow.com. We’ll also have photos of Cedar aka Lady Shug. That’s at hangupshow.com.

Hang Up is created and produced by me, Caitlin Pierce.

Our host and story editor is Zakiya Gibbons.

Our sound designer, mix engineer, and story editor is Ben Montoya.

And that’s it— our whole team is just three people. We put so.much. time and love into Hang Up because we believe in this show— And we get to make it weird and silly and queer and exactly what we want it to be because we are independent.

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Our sounding board is Allison Behringer, Karla Corrales, Chioke I’Anson, and Grayum Vickers.

Music by Jeff Carter and Stephen Pathe of Sandy - hear more at sandy-sounds.com

Show Art by Alex Teschel

Season Two Art by Marquez Torres.

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