Hey y’all! This is your producer Caitlin. I’m here to take you behind the scenes with one of our Callers who got the hang up.

So if you’re not caught up and aren’t yet ready to hear who got the hang up, this is your chance to pause and go back and listen.

Today I’m here with June. We’ll hear advice from their grandma, the story of someone who was married to a ghost, and how they practice relationship anarchy.

June was the first Caller to get the hang up in our Speed Dial date… after only seven minutes on the phone with Maxine.

June : I knew going into it, I was like, you're gonna be first and I was.

Caitlin: Really?

June: Yeah.

Caitlin: I didn't. I did not think you were going to be first. I was really sad to see you go. I just feel like you have so much to offer and I actually thought you and Maxine were vibing in that first date. So why did you think that you would go first?

June: Well, um, I'm unabashedly myself, honestly. I don't try to act cool, even though I'm on this podcast where we're supposed to have personas, I'm still always just going to be the geeky dad that I am and like so unashamed about that. And I just had a feeling that I was coming in a little, like, this person would be a good friend and I think that's exactly what Maxine said.

Caitlin: I guess what I'm hearing, it kind of sounds like you being yourself, you feel like you would get the hang up.

June: For like cool young queer people in the city, yeah, I like, my soul is in the 80s and I can be caught wearing New Balance and crew socks while mowing the lawn, like that's just who I am inside and not to get too political here, but I think it's also just like as a fat person too we're kind of not conditioned to think that we're a catch, and I've done a lot of work around that and I actually I do know that I am quite the catch, but I think there is some of that level too of like yeah, you can be as cool as you want and you're still fat.

Caitlin: It's interesting that you bring that up because there is no visuals and Maxine couldn't see you, you couldn't see her. You'd like, you don't know what her body type is.

June: Right.

Caitlin: But yeah, I do you think that like what you're saying, the crew socks mowing the lawn, like I think you, I think what you're saying is like that comes through and your personality.

June: It absolutely does, I like had to verify who Pitbull was like, pretty bad.

Caitlin: Some would say, pretty good, but, you know, it's perspective.

June: Touché.

Caitlin: So obviously we didn't get to spend a lot of time with you on the show but we want to get to know you more and I would love to play Two Truths and a Lie. You're going to tell me three things about yourself, two are true and one is a lie, and I have to guess which is the lie. So, are you ready?

June: I am ready.

Caitlin: Okay. Go for it.

June: Okay. The first one is that I have actually slipped on a banana peel. Just like a cartoon. The second is that I almost hooked up with somebody who revealed to me that they're married to a ghost.

Caitlin: Okay.

June: Yeah. And the last is that I have pet a black bear.

Caitlin: Oh my God I don't know. These are all super weird.

June: I know you told me to come in with a theme. I was like, I guess the only theme I have in life is just odd.

Caitlin: I don't think you've pet a black bear.

June: You are correct. It got really, really close to my car though, and I wanted to, but everyone was like, “no, that's that's not a good idea.”

Caitlin: So those are like a full wildlife situation.

June: My, my dad, I thought I saw my dad show up with his black lab, but it was a black bear. I was like, “oh hi, hi buddy.” And everyone's like, “roll your windows up now.” So yeah I did not pet it.

Caitlin: Your reaction was the same as if it was the black lab.

June: Yes. Precisely. Any furry creature I would like to pet.

Caitlin: On the record. You heard it here first. Wait, I need to hear this story of this ghost though because I was like that can't be the lie, cause like what? But also it definitely should have been.

June: Yeah, I wish it was and also just like for the record don't tell somebody that you're married to a ghost if you don't want them going on a podcast and telling everyone about it, for the record. Yeah, so we like really hit it off and they came over to my apartment and, you know, we were gonna negotiate if you catch my drift then but they kept playing with this, like, ring around their neck, like on a chain and they were being like a real askhole about it. They're like, this is so important. This ring is so spiritually important. So, I finally took the bait and then they revealed that they were married to one of their Spirit guides.

Caitlin: Okay. So what happened after that?

June: Well, one would think that, I threw them out of my apartment immediately, but for about honestly, three hours, I just kind of like, roasted them. And I don't think they knew. Maybe I'm revealing myself to be mean spirited and that's why nobody wants to go on a date with me. But I was just like, oh, do you like do sensual pottery together? And they looked at me like I had three heads. And, yeah so, they had never seen ghost with Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze, which…

Caitlin: Seems like a must-see for someone like them.

June: It's like your Bible. Is it not?

Caitlin: Yeah. It's like where else did you get this idea?

June: Yeah, exactly exactly yeah.

Caitlin: Wow. What were you hoping to get out of your experience on Hang Up? You know, obviously the show is set up of like you are competing for this person to maybe have a romantic connection with them. Was that something that drew you to this show? Or was that kind of a side reason?

June: It definitely was part of it. Yeah, you know, it would be, it would be nice, you know, we're all looking for a connection but I don't know, maybe just the silly, goofy relationship anarchist I am, I'm like, “We could make whatever connection we want and it would be awesome.” So that's a different story.

Caitlin: No, tell me more about this relationship anarchy, I'm in.

June: Yeah. So it's a, it's a flavor of ethical non-monogamy. Where first and foremost, like anarchy, there's no hierarchy in anything, so nobody has priority over another person. And then your relationships are not necessarily like you can use pre-made molds to help guide your relationship like, “oh, we're friends.” But you can also deepen that and sort of explore all the realm of what a relationship can hold. So, you know, maybe we're really deeply connected like partners, but we're like just platonic, we don't have any romance or sexual attraction or maybe there's a lot of romantic and sexual attraction but like, we don't want that commitment and we just want to have fun or anything in between all around. There's a really cool tool called the relationship anarchy smorgasbord, and you sort of go through, with your partner, parentheses s partners, depending on your lifestyle and you sort of make a plate so to say of like, what do we want our relationship to have? And that can move and shift and change anytime, very fluid.

Caitlin: Mmm, sounds delicious.

June: It is.

Caitlin: It's like taking Friendsgiving to a whole new level.

June: Absolutely, yes. That's my new tagline for relationship anarchy when I'm pitching it to people.

Caitlin: So I guess I'm wondering like when you are wanting to meet people I feel like culturally and you know in capitalist America that we live in like there was a huge delineation between if I'm approaching a new person, I already have in mind, “Is it a friend? Is it a romantic relationship?” and there's not a lot of blurring of those. So, do you approach like new relationships completely differently?

June: Yeah, that's actually, that's a really great question. I think you're right, that we just as a culture, have these things sort of hammered into us of like, “oh, I think this person is attractive. So I'm going to approach them in this way.” I when I do meet a new person. I really just kind of let like the vibe unfold together so to say, so like after that first meeting we have with each other, what are we both feeling? What am I feeling? Does this feel flirty? Does this feel intellectual, you know, what is that vibe? And then kind of go from there.

Caitlin: So when you do meet someone that you're like, okay, like feeling some energy from them, and that feels more romantic and you feel the same way, like, what's your move?

June: Oh, gosh. a piece of the puzzle that is coming up now, if you folks at home couldn't tell, is that I am very neurodivergent. I think that's also part of why I didn't move forward in the competition as much as I wanted to is because I'm just like, hey, I'm here. I'm me. I'm autistic AF. And that happens. So, I'm actually just very forward, the sort of the social games that we play often go over my head, so I'm very much just like, “hey, I think you're cool. Um, would you like to explore any of these things that I'm feeling together?” But I will say that, once that is like secured and it's like “oh yeah we're both interested in dating.” I do I like to take people. I love to drive and in just like driving around I found all these cool little like nature spots. Yeah. So I'm I would love tips if anyone has them on how to be more like whimsical and cool and romantic. Send me your best dating impression tips, thanks.

Caitlin: I love that. But yeah, I mean again I feel like it's like the theme of just like, “I'm just me like just so if you're into that we can move forward.”

June: Absolutely.

Caitlin: Which seems like a kind of a great like baseline rule for everyone, but I don't think like you're saying there's like this game. There's a lot of games being played.

June: Yeah, which is so funny that I went on a dating game show. But…

Caitlin: But you know, there's so many factors in the show that I don't feel like you can totally gamify it, right? Like, you guys getting on that call you, it's the first time you're interacting with this person, so, you know, maybe she would have been at into someone who's exactly like you and the other Callers couldn't do anything about that. You just don't know.

June: Right. Right. That's true.

Caitlin: So do you have… I know you like approach dating differently I think than you know, a Lifetime movie. So, do you have an ultimate goal of dating? Like, where do you see, like when you look to your future in terms of romantic relationships. What do you see?

June: Yeah, so that's a really great question. I guess I do like right now, currently, how I want to live my life is this idea of like singular or like solo ENM where like, I'm just like myself. I want to be the only person in my household. Well, other than my cat, that spicy little queen, and I want to just take care of myself, worry about my own finances and like, have people of varying intimacy levels, like come in and out. But like, I do, I would be lying if I said I didn't have a hope to find somebody who can like fit in my life and share the same politics and goals and dreams and sort of like build that together.

Caitlin: Mhm. I guess, like, I think how you describe like your future life, and romantic relationships would make maybe a lot of, like, people who subscribe to a more, a heteronormative, monogamous idea of that uncomfortable. And I think a lot of the the discomfort around that comes from this idea of like, “Who's going to take care of me when I get older?” Like, “I'm going to die alone.” These things, so I was just wondering if you could respond to that.

June: Yeah it's I definitely understand that because I've I have lost a few like really amazing potential relationships to the fact that they want monogamy and the house and the kid or the dog, you know, whatever it is, and ways that I would respond to that would include that when you have a strong circle of loved ones, whether they are platonic or romantic, or familial, you're going to be okay. You're going to have somebody, at least one person, if not more, who will have your back and will take care of you and in sickness and in health, like they say in the vows but also just like without having to have that institution of marriage, like somebody's going to care for you. And it's really amazing to explore what the people in your life can look like to you and build those connections so that, you know, maybe maybe you don't want to end up relying on a romantic partnership for that, because in my experience my platonic loved ones have had my back more often than romantic loved ones have. So maybe you'll find yourself in a point where you're like, yeah actually cool, I married you but I don't want you to take care of me in right now. You know, you might find yourself looking for someone else.

Caitlin: Yeah. I totally I love how you said that and it was phrased in such a like I feel like how I phrase it internally is like, “well, they might leave you to.” But you phrased it way more positively of, just like yeah, have other people, you know, like, regardless of what path you choose to take romantically, that can't be your only person.

June: Right, right. Even if you are monogamous or, you know, about heterosexual, you know, you're not queer in any way where like your relationship is being weird. Like, even if that is the case, like, you can't rely on that one person for everything. You're going to burn out, you’re going to get resentful. It's not realistic.

Caitlin: Mhm, yeah, and I think to win sometimes when people subscribe to very hard like, as we're encouraged to, because capitalism loves standardization, it often breaks people away from other relationships because they're saying, “no no you know your spouse is your best friend. You know, and they're your everything and who needs anyone else?” So, it can be kind of dangerous in that way.

June: Yeah, it's true. And if your spouse is your best friend, like that's awesome. That's really lovely and wonderful. I hope you also have other friends that you still do karaoke without your spouse with. You know, you have to have more than one support, because what happens when that one support falls apart?

Caitlin: Mmm. Yeah, so positively said. So if you could go back to your 20 year old self and give them advice about dating, what would you tell them?

June: I would start by saying, “no, don't go for that person in your math class. Absolutely not.” But I would also say, and it's so funny, I feel so chagrined saying this because my grandmother, my maternal grandmother, I would call her and tell her everything every time I had a new crush, "Grandma, guess what?" And she would always say to me, “that's really awesome. Have fun exploring that and worst case scenario, you've made a new really good friend.” like and sort of in her grandma way like encouraging me not to run away with myself like I'm so prone to doing and really just like… she also would sing that song “getting to know you.” And just be like, “remember like ‘getting to know you’ like take your time.” and I would actually at pushing 30, I would go back to my 20 year old self and say like just listen to your Gram, she knew she was talking about, take your time.

Caitlin: Grandma advice.

June: Yes.

Caitlin: So with the hang up, that means you are officially back on the market now.

June: Correct.

Caitlin: So I did want to give you an opportunity and you may accept or reject this of introducing your real name to the world and/or plugging your socials if you want people to hit you up, you know, we know you're a catch. And you're available, so.

June: That is correct. Yes, I would love to accept that offer. So my name is Rae and I go by the handle @wanderwort. Those are my handles on pretty much everything Instagram, Tiktok. Open to chatting with folks and “getting to know you.” That's a call back baby.

Hang Up is created and produced by me, Caitlin Pierce.

Our host and story editor is Zakiya Gibbons.

This episode was mixed and sound designed by Ben Montoya. Ben is also our story editor.

Music by Jeff Carter and Stephen Pathe of Sandy. Hear more at sandy-sounds.com

Art by Alex Teschel.

Studio recording by the ICA Community Media Center.

Our sounding board is Allison Behringer, Karla Corrales, Chioke I’Anson, and Grayum Vickers.

Hang Up is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia.fm.